Discussion on Crafting Buffs.

It's come to my attention that several members of the FC wish to have different buffs from the usual for crafting (Myself included.), this has sparked a bit of debate if the buff is even worth using or if will even make a difference for high tier crafting.

So, I've done a bit number crunching to help clarify how an extra +10 Control can make a a difference. The following information was obtained by crafting level 60 items using 729 Control, and going up to 10 stacks of Inner Quiet then repeating the same steps by consuming a HQ Raw Oyster to gain +10 Control from food buffs.

Control 729 - Control 739

Step 1: 294 - Step 1: 298

Step 2: 351 - Step 2: 355

Step 3: 409 - Step 3: 414

Step 4: 468 - Step 4: 475

Step 5: 529 - Step 5: 537

Step 6: 592 - Step 6: 600

Step 7: 655 - Step 7: 665

Step 8: 720 - Step 8: 731

Step 9: 787 - Step 9: 800

Now, the big difference comes once you use Great Strides --> Innovation --> Byregot's Blessing.

That 10 control results in an extra 630 towards your quality progress !! Add this to the 70 extra progress just from your normal progression of building Inner Quiet stacks up and the results are outstanding. Compounding numbers for the win !

If anyone frequents the mumble chat, often you will hear crafters vent their frustration over finishing a craft with 96% chance to HQ and
then discovering the game awards them with a normal quality item. This happens to me a LOT, even while using HQ foods like baked onion soup.

As crafters, we invest a lot of time and gil in order to maximize our efforts. Every little bit helps.
Just check the Market board, for one Control V materia the average cost is upwards of 5,000,000 gil. That's 5 million for JUST seven more control.

Oyster Confits and Seafood Stews are extremely expensive and often we need to use these food items in order to craft items for members of the Free Company for little to no compensation and even THEN we are not guaranteed to 100% an item when we are doing 2 and 3 star crafts. I can cite 2 examples were a crafter was helping a member with their crafting gear and ended with 94% and the result was a Normal quality item. This is millions of gils lost in material costs.

I hope this post will help clear any misunderstanding on the usefulness of this buff and help build support towards using it more often.

At the earlier levels it won't be noticed as much, but for stuff 50+ it does begin to make that difference. That extra 10 can be the difference.

I have best in slot gear and is also melded out but I can still benefit from the 10 control buff.

my stats on my weaver currently are:

Craftmanship:854
Control: 834
CP: 420

1st example: I crafted a 1 star 60 craft with normal quality matts no food and could only get to 15% progress towards high quality and when I go that 15 percent I had 10 stacks of inner quiet. I then did the craft again with high quality matts and got it to 85% with only 9 stacks of inner quiet. so if I started out with that extra 10 control that would garentte a 100%.

2nd example: I crafted something for Damage Control a while back a weighted adamantine sledgehammer and I got only a 94% high quality due to RNG and it still didn't HQ if I had that 10 control it would have HQ'd. Not to mention that these matts costs millions. Also I used food when I made this craft

When you start with the 10 control buff that extra progression towards hq you reach a certain point that when you hit hasty touch it will start to double

Us end game crafters craft for members of the FC all the time without asking to anything in return. We have invested millions upon millions of Gil into getting the best in slot crafting gear and melding out our gear and don't forget that when we meld out our gear it can take like 20 material just to successfully meld one piece of material into the piece of gear. The FC get tons of material all the time from the airships and its never given to the end game Omni crafters of the fc who craft for the fc or offered a discount on said materia. You can say the crafters can us a oyster confi that cost like 300k but I would hate to ask an fc member to pay for something like that when they are already giving us millions of material. Not to mention that this food can only be crafted by a specialist culinarian so even an master crafter cannot necessarily craft it either.

Im not a crafter myself but I know a lot of our members rely on our crafters for melds and making gear for all roles and levels. The crafters usually don't ask for much if anything at all for using their time for the rest of us. What benefits the crafters benefits all of us, so changing up a buff to allow them an easier time making hq gear would definitely be useful for the whole FC.

If they think it will have a positive impact, I think we should change it or at least temporarily change the buffs to test how much of an improvement the buff is.

Also this is slightly off topic but it was kinda mentioned already in this thread. If the airship ventures are bringing back materia that the crafters can use for their own gear, we should at least offer it to them at a discount before putting it on the mb or whatever is done with it. They do invest a ton of time and gil into helping the rest of us after all, and I'm sure some of them helped making the airships too.

If this goes through, it night be worthwhile to change the buff on Sunday from crafting exp to the control buff, as the bonus to control will help people get higher quality meaning they'll get more exp per craft and it'll be beneficial for both leveling and maxed out crafters.

The +10 control is a massive boost overall. It adds to your base stat, increases the benefit from food buffs, steady hand, byregots, Innovation, etc applied while crafting. This buff may seem like a negligible increase that is not a important, however it would mean a general overall 10% increase to quality while crafting. I am a fully geared Culinarian. With my current gear I am able to craft 3* food.

It is extremely difficult to max out the quality of an item being crafted to guarantee 100% success to high quality without HQ mats. Certain high quality materials are very expensive, for example: (These are current MB prices, which will be drastically higher post patch day)

Wattle Bark: 12,000
Dawnborne Aethersand: 13,000.
Sun Mica: 24,000

The are just a few of the items. Pose patch day these and other high soft after materials will price at 80k or higher as some of you have experienced with the items for relic. There is also new crafted gear which means higher difficulty in crafting new items, more time and money to get new bis crafting gear to hit the necessary requirements to craft those sought after items. To go outside the guild the average commission cost is 10% the going rate on the market board.
It takes time and effort to craft these items, we do so with a lot of time and gil invested and little more than a thank you from the person asking for what they want. I myself and other crafters would appreciate just a little bit more love.

The 10 control may seem negligible on its own but when combined with the fact that all our crafting is affected by multiplicative modifiers (inner quiet, innovation) it becomes a massive boost to finishing off a HQ product even with normal mats. At lower levels the buff doesn't seem that important due to not being able to HQ items regularly while leveling, but 50+ this buff becomes astronomically better by being the difference between a 90% chance to 100% in the quality bar. This is going to be even more important with the release of 3.3 where a new crafter/gather tier is gonna be released which will likely once again raise the minimum requirements to make specialists items. Since materia V for crafting is still amazingly expensive due to its rarity, having this extra bonus periodically will greatly ease the strain on us crafters who make HQ gear for our fellow FC members in the stress of making sure expensive and rare mats aren't wasted due to a 1% chance of failure.

I am not yet an endgame crafter, but I am leveling various crafting classes with an eye to (likely) taking WVR and likely GSM to 60/spec. With that in mind, the ability to HQ items, even while leveling, is probably more important than +10% crafting exp for me. Why? Because with WVR and GSM I make about 2/3 of my own gear. 10 Control would be a massive boost to my ability to quickly HQ my gear, leading to more HQ items for leve turn-ins later, and thus faster leveling.

--Erim

Having more use of the control buff would be great for any level crafter who is starting out and for more advanced crafting especially when it comes to helping others within the free company to do turn ins and job quests. Choosing reasonable days to use the buff is all I think should be adjusted, aside from raid buff usage when flights need it.

Thanks to all of you for your constructive thoughts on this. The Officers are continuing to monitor the discussion. Keep those thoughts coming.

One thing I should clarify while I'm here — the context in which I believe we'd be considering these buffs would be in the format of "for X hours on days Y, Z, etc." where X is probably 2 hours or so. The balance the Officers always try to strike with buffs is what benefits the largest demographic of the FC, and I don't feel these would be beneficial replacements for anything on our all-day schedule.

Basically, we'd be approaching these crafting buffs from a mindset not unlike our raid buffs: this helps a number of people we care a lot about and who do a lot of good for the guild, so we're having everyone else put their buffs on hold to respect that. In the case of crafting that is especially true, as we know you guys help a lot with getting people geared out.

P.S. I've cleaned up the thread a bit; let's try to keep things focused/civil.

Thank you Okaria for keeping an eye on the thread to keep things focused/civil I am sure I speak for everyone in the crafting community of the fc when I say thank you for considering this.

Also 2 hours would be more then enough, and we thank everyone in the fc who would be kind enough to put buffs on hold to accommodate us crafters.

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Originally Posted by Okaria

Thanks to all of you for your constructive thoughts on this. The Officers are continuing to monitor the discussion. Keep those thoughts coming.

One thing I should clarify while I'm here — the context in which I believe we'd be considering these buffs would be in the format of "for X hours on days Y, Z, etc." where X is probably 2 hours or so. The balance the Officers always try to strike with buffs is what benefits the largest demographic of the FC, and I don't feel these would be beneficial replacements for anything on our all-day schedule.

Basically, we'd be approaching these crafting buffs from a mindset not unlike our raid buffs: this helps a number of people we care a lot about and who do a lot of good for the guild, so we're having everyone else put their buffs on hold to respect that. In the case of crafting that is especially true, as we know you guys help a lot with getting people geared out.

P.S. I've cleaned up the thread a bit; let's try to keep things focused/civil.

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Originally Posted by Sesena

The FC get tons of material all the time from the airships and its never given to the end game Omni crafters of the fc who craft for the fc or offered a discount on said materia.

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Puzzle, I hate to break it to you but this is completely untrue and has been for several months now. There might have been a time when the FC airships were used to get crafting materials but this has since changed. Since diadem came out we have kept one ship open for it, leaving 3 ships to do airship venture with. Only 2 of those ships are capable of hitting island hitting island 17 which has the Craft Command/ Comp. IV material. However these two ships have been going to island 24 mostly because a lot of FC member wanted to have access to the Zu mounts which we have been giving away during different FC events.

Now in the past, I have taken the crafting material and sold it for gil on the mb which was then used to fund our event prizes and giveaways. I certainly could start putting any crafting material we get now in tab 2 for sale to FC members at a discount so long as it isn't abused for personal profit. I see no harm in that.

As well, if you ever have any concerns about the FC airships you and/or any member of the FC can always check the flight logs to see what the airships returned with. I'm pretty sure that is open to all members to do. Or you can ask me about it which is better than having a misinformed ideas about how the FC airships are hording tons of material back on a daily basis.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me Artex as that was not my understanding. But you are correct in saying it was in the past before the zu mounts when I was told that airships acquired material, I was not aware that had changed.

However whatever the case might be ayuna is right in saying its not the purpose of this discussion and is something that would have been discussed at a later time had it been relevant. But now I know its not.

The point of the discussion is how the control buff would benefit. I was simply trying to explain how much of a Gil investment crafters have to do.

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Originally Posted by Artex

Puzzle, I hate to break it to you but this is completely untrue and has been for several months now. There might have been a time when the FC airships were used to get crafting materials but this has since changed. Since diadem came out we have kept one ship open for it, leaving 3 ships to do airship venture with. Only 2 of those ships are capable of hitting island hitting island 17 which has the Craft Command/ Comp. IV material. However these two ships have been going to island 24 mostly because a lot of FC member wanted to have access to the Zu mounts which we have been giving away during different FC events.

Now in the past, I have taken the crafting material and sold it for gil on the mb which was then used to fund our event prizes and giveaways. I certainly could start putting any crafting material we get now in tab 2 for sale to FC members at a discount so long as it isn't abused for personal profit. I see no harm in that.

As well, if you ever have any concerns about the FC airships you and/or any member of the FC can always check the flight logs to see what the airships returned with. I'm pretty sure that is open to all members to do. Or you can ask me about it which is better than having a misinformed ideas about how the FC airships are hording tons of material back on a daily basis.

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I think this could work if enough people got together to decide when to use the control buff. Just like how raid groups have to coordinate to be allowed to use the food buff, I would love to see the same level of coordination from a crafting team. There's even a place on the forums where this could all happen. Hell, there's already a crafting roster.

In addition, I would love to see this time slot advertised in FC chat and the forums as a time when any FC person can request to have things made, not just in mumble or linkshells. It would be a great way to include as much of the FC as possible.

I quite like Floren's idea of a "crafting static" and integrating it into the FC schedule so that people know when they can ask to get their fancy schmancy 3* crafts and stuff done. Co-ordinating things through forums can be difficult - so an in-game LS would probably be handy for organizing this, but posting on the forums wouldn't hurt either - the officer team could also advertise this time-slot in-game until people know about it well.

I am creating a crafting Link shell that will hopefully make organizing crafting easier when the buff is up. The crafting form is a nice idea in theory but the truth of the matter is that no one uses it. This Also means that members of the fc will have to wait until whatever time is decided to have there items crafted and yes the times will need to be advertised so the members of the fc are aware when they can have items crafted.

If we could get a full roster of how many people are using the buff at any set time, that would be super handy, too :)

And the thing about the forums, I know people may not use it now, but we should encourage them to use it. It's here for a good reason! It'll also help let people who are not always online see the crafting roster and who crafts what and when.

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Originally Posted by Floren

And the thing about the forums, I know people may not use it now, but we should encourage them to use it. It's here for a good reason! It'll also help let people who are not always online see the crafting roster and who crafts what and when.

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I was keeping the crafting roster updated since it was neglected, but no one has said about any updates in about 2 months. I dont mind updating it, especially since it is the only way for the officer team to know how many crafters we actually have.

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Originally Posted by Sesena

I was simply trying to explain how much of a Gil investment crafters have to do.

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This argument really bothers me. :(

I was (still am, if I choose to play again) a well-geared crafter. Yes, it cost me a lot of gil, but it also made a lot of gil; I bought two houses (dropping a total of 25 million gil) in the game, all from crafting money.

We often had the conversation about how crafting essentially makes gil just so you can invest it in crafting so you can make more gil so you can craft more ad infinitum. It's like a raider complaining how much they spend on gear so they can topple top-tier content: Crafters do that because they choose to do that. It's not a requirement of the game. It's the aspect of the game that entices them - and that's awesome! But it's where they choose to spend their gil; no one is twisting their arm to do so.

Further, the whole "we make stuff for FC mates" strikes me as odd: Is it a complaint? If so, just don't do it anymore. If people feel like they're being taken advantage of because they're offering things at a discount, don't do it. Or do what Myz (who was essentially the FC's craft-bitch for years) did and get people to farm crystals, clusters, etc. But don't use it as justification for how hard crafters have it.

Crafters make bank. With or without an extra 10 Control from an FC buff.

Like, I get that people want this buff, but be honest about the reasons why; don't couch the real reasons with transparent justifications. People want this buff so they can make more money. And that's just fine.

I'm not entirely sure how the whole buff management thing works with FCs but i think if a majority of the high level crafters in the fc could come to an agreement of a time and day of the week to have this buff active to maximise the usefulness of it i think that'd be great. I'm not 60 in any of my crafts yet but i know how it can be a pain in the ass even if you're melded.

idk, i don't see the problem with having it on like Okaria stated. As long as it isn't on during high traffic raiding hours who are you hurting? :)

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Originally Posted by Gwen

This argument really bothers me. :(

I was (still am, if I choose to play again) a well-geared crafter. Yes, it cost me a lot of gil, but it also made a lot of gil; I bought two houses (dropping a total of 25 million gil) in the game, all from crafting money.

We often had the conversation about how crafting essentially makes gil just so you can invest it in crafting so you can make more gil so you can craft more ad infinitum. It's like a raider complaining how much they spend on gear so they can topple top-tier content: Crafters do that because they choose to do that. It's not a requirement of the game. It's the aspect of the game that entices them - and that's awesome! But it's where they choose to spend their gil; no one is twisting their arm to do so.

Further, the whole "we make stuff for FC mates" strikes me as odd: Is it a complaint? If so, just don't do it anymore. If people feel like they're being taken advantage of because they're offering things at a discount, don't do it. Or do what Myz (who was literally the FC's craft-bitch for years) did and get people to farm crystals, clusters, etc. But don't use it as justification for how hard crafters have it.

Crafters make bank. With or without an extra 10 Control from an FC buff.

Like, I get that people want this buff, but be honest about the reasons why; don't couch the real reasons with transparent justifications. People want this buff so they can make more money. And that's just fine.

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Saving money and making money are some of the reasons we wish to have this buff, and yes we crafter's make millions upon millions of gil with the products we sell, but we do so by being savvy with our investments and doing research on each of our individual markets. Hence why we have provided a bit of an overview on how this buff would benefit us, and a by the numbers approach on how it effects our quality progress during crafting high level items.

Further, we have a highly anticipated patch coming up very soon. New crafting gear and gathering gear is coming over the horizon and the early acquisition of these pieces is a goal that many of us share, for me I want BOTH (Can has Master Fisher Tittle please?). We don't know the requirements yet, but if the case was that we needed to craft the pieces every little edge we can get would help.

Let's not also forget there will be new housing plots coming soon and several people will be interested in purchasing a house, thus being able to reliably craft high ticket items will be vital for those who are hastily trying to save enough gil before the patch releases. We can also add the future Moogle Beast Tribe quests to this conversation, since it has been confirmed that their quests will require crafting, and if they are anything like the Ixal quests, they will more than likely require the production of high quality items with some sort of handicap (Moogle equipment or some sort of "production" debuff) and I know that everyone will benefit from more control in order to finish their quotas.

To summarize, there is a difference between wants and needs and I can easily see in the future everyone or most needing this.

I am going to put in a viewpoint with Gwen. I have geared crafters. I know the money and time investment. I did everything alone. By myself. Making my gear, spiritbonding gear for materia, melding (and failing over and over) just to get to the point where i can do 3-star crafts. I did all this without the FC buff. And really, I think that other buffs are more beneficial. Most likely, if you are going to be doing crafting, I would rather have meat and mead up so that the food i am using lasts longer, therefore saving me more money. Because lets face it. If you are three star crafting, you will probably be eatting food, which costs money. I think that is more beneficial and if you want to save money, wouldnt this be a beneficial piece. Often times, If i failed a 2-star craft becoming HQ, that 10 control points wouldnt have made a difference. So instead of wanting that buff, i put the time in and spiritbonded, and melded more control. Or completely redid my melds.

I agree with Gwen too on the "we make stuff for FC mates" argument. When I was working towards my crafting gear, I asked crafters on multiple occasions to help me out, and often got ignored, or got responses of "well I can do it, but it might be better to find someone else (paraphrased)." I think "we make stuff for FC mates" argument falls under the category of, we make stuff for FC mates that we really like. Now this might be my misinterpretation, but on multiple occasions, I, and others that are in my flight, had to go outside of the FC to get things crafted, because the people in the FC were unwilling to help us. I find this argument to be subpar.

And seriously, the comment about "To summarize, there is a difference between wants and needs and I can easily see in the future everyone or most needing this. " I dont know how many people NEED housing items. I dont even know how many people WANT houses in FFXIV. You might know a small group of people in the FC that do. But I guarentee that it isnt EVERYONE.

Let's go back to math.

I am going to use Puzzle's numbers as an example. She currently has :

854 Craftmanship
834 Control
420 CP

She has best in slot gear and the most optimal materia melds. I assigned her the task of crafting Sewing thread, an item that as right now serves no purpose, but that we suspect will be needed for some future craft related to crafting or gathering gear.

This is a level 60 Craft with a one star rating. It has a Max quality rating of 9,430 and a Difficulty rating of 1.436.
Using normal quality materials she ran her rotation and managed to reach 10 stacks of Inner quiet, which is very lucky RNG. She only managed to reach 15% success to HQ once Byregot's was used. I then provided her with HQ materials so she could attempt the same task, once her rotation was complete she had 9 stacks of Inner quiet and ended at 85% to HQ once Byregot's was used. The 10 more control would have made the push to 100% a certainty.

The cost of food is minimal when we compare it to the cost of materials. A seafood stew might cost me 90,000 gil, but here is a list of high tier material costs of items that are used often.

Adamantite Ingot :320,000 gil
Aurum Regis Ingot : 875,000 gil (I just did a double take, that's an extreme o.O)
Eikon Iron Ingot : 100,000 gil
Purified Coke : 90,000 gil
Coerthan Oyster : 99,999 gil
Astral Birch Lumber : 532,000 gil
Astral Silk : 472,000 gil
Griffin Leather : 534,000 gil
Grade 2 Dissolvents : 500,000 gil on average

This is a brief list of items at their current prices on the market board. As Ellifien pointed out the prices of these items will likely rise, and I can agree with him on this because on the last patch the price of birch lumber went from 1,000 gil each to 15,000 gil since it was needed to create the Orchestrion furniture. Heck the price of Adamantite ore went from 800 gil to 6,000 gil.

When we craft, we want to make sure that these expensive materials don't go to waste and we end up with the desired result, a High Quality item we can be proud to have our names displayed on, that we can use for ourselves and others that request our services.

In the case of Puzzle, she has the absolute highest stats anyone can achieve. The only way she can push a bit further is with the FC buff and food. Both which can stack.

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Originally Posted by Nasca

To summarize, there is a difference between wants and needs...

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I agree.

First of all this is not an argument it's a civil conversation we are having and are trying to show how it would benefit all crafters in the game, those that are levelling up and those that are maxed out.

Second transparent justifications that is not true at all. We don't want the buff to make more gil that has nothing to due with it.

No we are not complaining about doing crafts for fc members we love helping out our fc mates. We want the buff so that we can do those 2 star and 3 star crafts when RNG bites us in the butt so we don't fail a craft for an FC member. I personally hate having to normal quality an item that cost an fc member millions of Gil in matts that Nasca pointed out in his post for it to wind up normal quality.

Also a lot of raiders come to the crafters in the fc to make the raiding gear so a maxed out crafter benefits them as well. Crafters can make just as much money as anyone else in this game that don't even craft, heck I know people who have more money then I do.So saying that crafters make gil as a reason not to have the control buff is a week argument.

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Originally Posted by Gwen

This argument really bothers me. :(

I was (still am, if I choose to play again) a well-geared crafter. Yes, it cost me a lot of gil, but it also made a lot of gil; I bought two houses (dropping a total of 25 million gil) in the game, all from crafting money.

We often had the conversation about how crafting essentially makes gil just so you can invest it in crafting so you can make more gil so you can craft more ad infinitum. It's like a raider complaining how much they spend on gear so they can topple top-tier content: Crafters do that because they choose to do that. It's not a requirement of the game. It's the aspect of the game that entices them - and that's awesome! But it's where they choose to spend their gil; no one is twisting their arm to do so.

Further, the whole "we make stuff for FC mates" strikes me as odd: Is it a complaint? If so, just don't do it anymore. If people feel like they're being taken advantage of because they're offering things at a discount, don't do it. Or do what Myz (who was essentially the FC's craft-bitch for years) did and get people to farm crystals, clusters, etc. But don't use it as justification for how hard crafters have it.

Crafters make bank. With or without an extra 10 Control from an FC buff.

Like, I get that people want this buff, but be honest about the reasons why; don't couch the real reasons with transparent justifications. People want this buff so they can make more money. And that's just fine.

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I'm going to step out of this argument.

Personally, it doesn't affect me whether or not this buff happens, or what reasons you all have for wanting it. :) If Okaria and the FFXIV officers feel it will benefit enough people to make it worth doing, then yay!

Happy gaming! :)

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Originally Posted by reddragn87

And seriously, the comment about "To summarize, there is a difference between wants and needs and I can easily see in the future everyone or most needing this. " I dont know how many people NEED housing items. I dont even know how many people WANT houses in FFXIV. You might know a small group of people in the FC that do. But I guarentee that it isnt EVERYONE.

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I don't mean to nitpick here, but you seem to be confused. Housing items can not be made into High Quality versions (Thus we don't need bonus control for those) and not everyone is of course going to want a house. Like myself, there's just not enough fishing related furniture :( (Dear Square Enix, please make more fish trophies.)

When I mentioned wants and needs I was referring to the future Moogle quests, I'm pretty positive that their quest items will not be trade able, thus making them HQ for non omni-crafters might prove challenging or in the case where they bestow the "buff" that does not allow the use of cross skills.

Anyway, to continue with the topic. Another advantage I can mention is when most people level crafters jobs they do so via turns ins. Grand Companies, leve quests and Ixal quests all award double the exp when turning in High Quality items. When I was leveling my jobs what I would do is craft several of the needed turns in or purchase them off the market board. Gaining me several levels within a short amount of time. Unfortunately the crafting exp buff doesn't apply when doing turn ins x,X.

Quick edit; Not to mention, some of the Guild craft quest require HQ items in order to progress.

I have a bad habit of somehow saying the perfect thing to piss everyone off, so I'll keep this simple.

We've been accommodating raider's buff selections for years. We promote as an FC that does everything in the game, focusing in no one area. I don't think giving the crafters one day of what they want is unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by Nasca

I don't mean to nitpick here, but you seem to be confused. Housing items can not be made into High Quality versions (Thus we don't need bonus control for those) and not everyone is of course going to want a house. Like myself, there's just not enough fishing related furniture :( (Dear Square Enix, please make more fish trophies.)

When I mentioned wants and needs I was referring to the future Moogle quests, I'm pretty positive that their quest items will not be trade able, thus making them HQ for non omni-crafters might prove challenging or in the case where they bestow the "buff" that does not allow the use of cross skills.

Anyway, to continue with the topic. Another advantage I can mention is when most people level crafters jobs they do so via turns ins. Grand Companies, leve quests and Ixal quests all award double the exp when turning in High Quality items. When I was leveling my jobs what I would do is craft several of the needed turns in or purchase them off the market board. Gaining me several levels within a short amount of time. Unfortunately the crafting exp buff doesn't apply when doing turn ins x,X.

Quick edit; Not to mention, some of the Guild craft quest require HQ items in order to progress.

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Nasca, you seem to be thinking that I am a complete idiot. I too am a crafter within the FC, one that many of you guys seem to not know about. And apparently you didnt read my post, so thank you for cutting to the end and doing that. I DO know that you cant HQ a housing item. I was simply going off of your comment. Yes, I read it in entirety, so I am going to say then in response that your ending comment then is very confusing to the point that I was unable to see exactly what it is.

And still, I stand by that statement. not everyone is going to want the Moogle Crafting gear. So your statement is still false. And if you guys want to tell me that that statement is wrong, go ahead and make my day. Because I too am seeing this being more of a nit-picking argument against the FC officers and the things we have done in the past, without you guys seeing the situation from all sides.

I think we've beaten the horse twice to death and are continuing to bludgeon the poor thing. Personally, I don't really care whether it's "required" or "may be required" or "everyone wants it" (because, let's be real, there are a LOT of people in the FC, and I highly doubt anyone knows what every single person in the FC wants). I don't think we need to see another post about the math behind it all. I agree with Gwen in that crafters have the ability to make a lot of gil, which is in proportion to how much gil they invest. This is normal. It is a person's decision to spend that gil, and the FC is in no way required to reimburse people or hand out materia to those who choose to level and gear up crafters. If you choose to make something for someone at a discount, or buy expensive food, that is your choice. I don't think we hand out medals for this.

However, if enough people can make a concerted effort to form a group, decide on a day and time when they can all get together to have this buff up, I don't see a problem with having it up for 2 hours. I can't speak for the rest of the officers, but I'd like to see a full roster of people in this crafting "static," just so we all know an exact number of people who would be benefiting from the control buff. Use the crafting forum! It's right there! I wish someone would move this thread. XD You can't tell me people don't use it when there's been so many responses in this thread already.

If the claim is that this buff is to benefit other members of the FC, then I can't stress enough that this time be advertised in FC chat and on the forums, so that everyone has a chance to request whatever craft they want. If several people in the FC have had craft requests denied for whatever reason, this needs to be the time where these requests are not ignored.

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Originally Posted by Lumino

I have a bad habit of somehow saying the perfect thing to piss everyone off, so I'll keep this simple.

We've been accommodating raider's buff selections for years. We promote as an FC that does everything in the game, focusing in no one area. I don't think giving the crafters one day of what they want is unreasonable.

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As Floren said above Magnus - the raiders all get together around a certain time and "ask" for the buff at that point. Floren and Okaria have laid out a few times in this thread that if the crafters would just come to some sort of a meeting time, then I think the officers would be on-board with the buff idea. At this point though, the response to the forum and "static" idea has been along the lines of "I'm not going to start using the forum because it hasn't been used in the past" along with "well we'll just make a ls for it then"....

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Originally Posted by reddragn87

Nasca, you seem to be thinking that I am a complete idiot. I too am a crafter within the FC, one that many of you guys seem to not know about. And apparently you didnt read my post, so thank you for cutting to the end and doing that. I DO know that you cant HQ a housing item. I was simply going off of your comment. Yes, I read it in entirety, so I am going to say then in response that your ending comment then is very confusing to the point that I was unable to see exactly what it is.

And still, I stand by that statement. not everyone is going to want the Moogle Crafting gear. So your statement is still false. And if you guys want to tell me that that statement is wrong, go ahead and make my day. Because I too am seeing this being more of a nit-picking argument against the FC officers and the things we have done in the past, without you guys seeing the situation from all sides.

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I don't believe anyone to be an idiot, certainly I also read your entire statement, as we are having an open discussion on the mumble servers and many of us are sharing our opinions of each and every post in this thread and we are all very civil. There are few things that do seem off from your posts, since no one has mentioned housing items and of course no one has mentioned crafting gear. What I mentioned was Moogle Beast tribe progression, which will prove challenging with handicaps that they might use on us. Just to clarify.

Anyway, I have to leave for work, so I will keep an eye on this later.

It would be helpful to see less discussion on mumble and more of it here, as not everyone can be on it all the time, and would keep this discussion as open as possible :)

To make things simpler for everyone in this discussion...

There's an obvious consensus that has been reached to setup a day/time for the crafting buffs to be utilized by those that want them.

All that's needed now is to figure out the day/time for it.

The extraneous comments and arguments aren't doing anything but derailing the actual objective of this thread.

Let's keep this simple and just use the thread to now get the specifics of when to schedule this. Anything else doesn't belong here.

We can discuss the benefits of having the control buff until we black and blue, what needs to be done at this point is see when the best time for most crafts to use the buff as a trial period and see how it goes.

Let's keep things on track here, gang. I realize buffs are always a passionate discussion (who would ever have thought?) but we're here for a very specific reason that we should focus on. <3

So, everything aside, I feel like we're largely - in principal - in agreement here that a couple hours of crafting buffs isn't going to hurt anything. I'm not a crafter so I can't really argue one way or the other on the usefulness of these buffs. You guys certainly seem to done the math, and I trust that. If it won't interfere with existing buffs substantially and could make our crafters happier with our buff situation, I personally don't see any harm in this. What is our purpose as a community if not to look after one another and ensure we're doing what we can to satisfy each other's needs? We do so for raiders, we do so for those leveling jobs, and I see no harm in doing so for our crafters.

Puzzle, Nasca, et al - I do apologize if this was posted already and has gotten lost in the mix to me (this thread has become quite tedious) - would you like to sync up with your fellow crafters and come up with a schedule proposal for us to consider that would be ideal for you all? I think that should be our next step, and would be helpful in keeping the discussion on track. We can move forward from there.

Edit: Sorry, just noticed Cedric post essentially the same thing just before me >_>

Hello Okaria I will post something in the AKS Crafting LS tonight when more people log on and hopefully me and Nasca can come up with something to provide to you.

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Originally Posted by Sesena

Hello Okaria I will post something in the AKS Crafting LS tonight when more people log on and hopefully me and Nasca can come up with something to provide to you.

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Thanks! I appreciate it

Let me start you off with some ideas for making a good schedule.

Here is the FCs flight roster it shows the days and times when every raid group runs. http://www.aureusknights.com/showthr...ed-April-20th*
We'd like to avoid conflict between the raiding buffs and crafting buffs. All of them start in the evening after 7pm Eastern, so late afternoon or during the dinner hours would not cause conflict.

I also have a preliminary proposal:

Damage Control and I were randomly brainstorming in mumble one night and he came up with this idea. We could turn off Heat of Battle and Earth and Water a little early on Saturday night, turn on In Control and Helping Hand a bit early on Saturday night. Then, after a few hours we take off In control and put Heat of Battle back up.

One reason for Saturday is that taking off E&W a little early and putting up HH a little early helps equalize there uptime, where as now HH always gets a little bit shorted by our Sunday evening groups heading into raid.

Okaria,

I have spoken to a few crafters in the FC and they came up with the idea of having the buff on Wednesday, this is the day before Red scrip turn ins are due, so Wednesday is usually a big crafting day for most crafters. Now looking at the raiding schedule I see only one raid group that runs on Wednesday that starts at 9:00 pm est so that would have to be the cut off time if we decided to have the buff up on this day.

Nasca also thought that maybe we could have it up for a few hours on another day in addition to the Wednesday, we were thinking on a Friday or Saturday because no raid groups run on those days that i could see.