Forming Exploratory Voyages Group/Event

TL;DR: 3.1 Airship content brainstorming, origination and planing so we can rock it like a hurricane.

The live letter the other day has put some great info out about the next expansion to airship content coming in 3.1. Up to 24 man FC groups, Eso from objectives, multiple difficulty levels, and a slew of other info. Thanks to lots of hard work we have the airships, now we need the people!

In case you haven't seen the specifics yet, here's how it works: Each ship can take one full party, and if multiple ships queue from the same FC they should all be placed together. Moreover, only lvl 50 FC airships can go to the hardest level area. Now I did say, 24 man cap which means 3 of the 4 ships are needed. Once your in you have a timer of 90 min. to get what you want done, just like a dungeon, before your kicked out and have to wait though a 30 min. cooldown timer before you can go back in. Now what makes things a smidgen complicated is that the ships used to take the groups cannot be out on a venture and cant take anyone else out for 20 min. So, if there is high demand or if groups are unorganized, we could easily end up with too few seats for a given time.

OK, back to what i'm actually here to talk about. I want that 24 man group to go in, kick ass, get gear/loot/eso and have a good time doing it. And i'd like it to be a recurring event. Weekly? Monthly? Still figuring out specifics, like how much interest do we actually have in the FC for this? Would it be a static? Semi-static? Would it be easiest to bring in 3 preexisting flights and just run with that as our group? There's a bunch to nail down, but best to get the ball rolling early.

Comments, suggestions, vague curses? Send em! Its a big ball and i'm only one guy.

~Grimm Stronghamer

I am 120% against doing it as 3 pre existing flights. The absolute last thing we want to do is encourage clicey behavior. We're a huge FC, and we are gonna have a LOT of people who want to do it when the patch drops.

I'd say that we should probably just run them as often as we can at the start. Fill up the ships as much as we can, and go. Once the hype dies down, then we can start assigning individual days for it. It's silly to do it now, because as soon as the 10th rolls around, everyone is gonna be chomping at the bit to go.

I can see what you mean about the pre-existing flights being an issue, and i agree with your reasoning. But i still think the need for organization is real. We're an FC of roughly 500. Even if only 120 people, a mere 25%-ish of the FC, is interested that first day that's still 15 ships worth of seats. Even assuming free reign on all 4 ships, it would still take over an hour and a half to get everyone launched. Toss in the normal set backs of no-shows and "2 sec brb"s and suddenly it's much worse.

The officer team is discussing how to handle using the airships and possible FC events using them. There will be more details once it's worked out and all specifics are known.

I'm offering my seat up to the first person to grab it since I'd be a liability for wanting and making tanks and healers contribute DPS.

I believe we may be able to preform alliances and go through the ishgard airship docks as well. I know that was mentioned as an option for those without an FC. We could use that to help with the overcrowding.

It looks like there's no limit to the number of times the FC can send airships in to do this, and the airships return to the FC house 20 minutes after being launched, so worring about "cliquey behavior" is completely unnecessary. Organized Flights are going to go in as Flights - they work well together, so why wouldn't they? And Flights will probably want to work with other Flights for that same reason. But that's not going to prevent everyone else from going. It's also not going to prevent people in Flights from going at random times. Or from bringing people from outside their Flight as a replacement. Or from any other combination of possible things that could happen.

Calm down.

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Originally Posted by Haz

Calm down.

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http://i.imgur.com/HZOCqdB.gif

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Originally Posted by Dresdel

I believe we may be able to preform alliances and go through the ishgard airship docks as well. I know that was mentioned as an option for those without an FC. We could use that to help with the overcrowding.

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I know that full parties can go In from ishgard (not sure about alliances) but then they are locked out of the hard mode and really thats where the meat of the rewards are. So yes it will help if people aren't particular who they are grouped with or are just trying it out, but if they are going for loot it won't be much help.

So I don't understand all the animosity towards the flights, if they decided they want to go together are we actively discourage them from doing so? If this was a limited system where only X number of ships from a FC could go in a day or week, I would be a bit more open to the idea of being slightly more controlling. However given Haz's point of only having a 20 min turnaround on getting a ship back, if flights want to roll out as an 8 man team why on earth would we stop them from playing with the people the feel comfortable and have fun with?

The exploratory content is going to be really difficult to get polices in place for until we actually see how it plays out in game. We are currently having discussions on ideas to make it accessible to anyone interested but I can assure you that it will not come at the expense of someone else's progress or fun.

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Originally Posted by Lumino

I am 120% against doing it as 3 pre existing flights. The absolute last thing we want to do is encourage clicey behavior. We're a huge FC, and we are gonna have a LOT of people who want to do it when the patch drops.

I'd say that we should probably just run them as often as we can at the start. Fill up the ships as much as we can, and go. Once the hype dies down, then we can start assigning individual days for it. It's silly to do it now, because as soon as the 10th rolls around, everyone is gonna be chomping at the bit to go.

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:rolleyes:

cliques inevitably form out of massive groups. AKS does its best to work around this timeless social issue. so, going on a crusade to discourage 'cliquey behavior' is basically saying people shouldn't find their own friend groups in this giant FC. i think that's a toxic attitude to hold. there are many options for social circles in MMOs. AKS is an option where you have to deal with the ins and outs of a larger than usual memberbase. part of dealing with it ends up sometimes finding one or two or three special people you might cram into a mumble channel with more than others, while still opening yourself up in-game to runs and things.

i know you're trying to come off as selfless with this post but it came out as the complete opposite. it might be attractive to newer members who are still looking for friends here (p.s.to newer members, be my friend, i'm sorta neat), but it's misleading as the post is self-serving. AKS does its very, very best to include everyone, and encourages participation in and with flights. please don't create spectres out of the idea of cliques in a large fc. it ironically becomes the root cause of drama and hostility.

admittedly, what we know as of today regarding the restrictions on exploration are definitely enough to cause a lot of worry, and i don't think dialogue between members about this should be discouraged. but at the same time, i'm tired of the attitude that 'cliques are terrible! people are excluding me!' because it's not true and i've seen it cause so many problems that shouldn't have been problems at all. people look out for each other. that doesn't mean everyone has to be in the same chatroom, but most of us are here because we want to clear content with like-minded people. and we do.

Ok,so.
1) holy crap actual discussion,yay!
2) I'm seeing a good deal of talk about the 8 man party case, whereas I'm more interested/concerned with the 24 man case. More specifically the organization of a recurring event.

Maybe I have misjudged the situation, but I don't see a 24 man pickup group happening on the fly just because. I see people wanting to, even trying to, but then getting blocked by discord, timetables and unintended ship ninjaing.

That's what I aim to minimize and hopefully prevent entirely. Cuz damn it I want to see a army of knights feasting on brachiosaurus.

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Originally Posted by Grimm Stronghammer

I don't see a 24 man pickup group happening on the fly just because.

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http://i.imgur.com/5QdBVLe.jpg

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Originally Posted by Grimm Stronghammer

I know that full parties can go In from ishgard (not sure about alliances) but then they are locked out of the hard mode and really thats where the meat of the rewards are. So yes it will help if people aren't particular who they are grouped with or are just trying it out, but if they are going for loot it won't be much help.

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I don't see anything about a lock out in the live letter translation. Did I miss something?

i wanted to just add a small aside here to harmonize with what lumpy mentioned.

there are people (maybe a fair amount?) in this FC that are very shy and social anxious people. Through force (either having to run with someone), bravery and courage on their own part to face their own social anxiety demons, or a slowly growing socially with a small group of people that they interact with begin to open up with members of the FC verbally and textually. the cliques happen because it is a smaller and digestible amount of social interaction for those that are timid. having a vast and sprawling channel of members all talking and discussing can also be daunting for someone that may want to speak up and say something but might not have the confidence to be socially assertive or talk over someone. I think these are some very valid points and reasons in our little micro environment that we live in that show us some hints as to why people act/react the way they do.

some people may actively mean to exclude others because of drama, dislike, or indifference, but i have to hope that the reasons it would happen are more internal sheepishness versus malicious intent.

try to keep that in context some when coloring the social landscape of the FC. not everyone is stonewalling you out of their circle of conversation, some people just clam up with those they don't know.

Carry on my dear knights!

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Originally Posted by Grimm Stronghammer

Ok,so.
1) holy crap actual discussion,yay!
2) I'm seeing a good deal of talk about the 8 man party case, whereas I'm more interested/concerned with the 24 man case. More specifically the organization of a recurring event.

Maybe I have misjudged the situation, but I don't see a 24 man pickup group happening on the fly just because. I see people wanting to, even trying to, but then getting blocked by discord, timetables and unintended ship ninjaing.

That's what I aim to minimize and hopefully prevent entirely. Cuz damn it I want to see a army of knights feasting on brachiosaurus.

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Also, we used to get 24 people together for CT/ST/WoD all the time. It happens. :) And if not, then the gaps can be filled with folks outside the FC.

I think the biggest issue isn't getting the 24 people together to do a run, its that if we have a ship out on something, and a group of 24 starts forming and then a group of 8 takes another ship out, we're down 1 ship. I have no question that we can get a group of 24 people rocked out cocked out and ready to go. But dem ships...

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Originally Posted by Crunchy

having a vast and sprawling channel of members all talking and discussing can also be daunting for someone that may want to speak up and say something but might not have the confidence to be socially assertive or talk over someone.

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3 words: Sehr and Mancakes.

I kid, I kid... or do I?

So depending on how it works, I'd suggest a static 2 to 3 days a week when 24 man raids have full access to the ships, and then the other days of the week its straight first come first serve, or something. This is also contingent on not being able to just use the ishgard ports to access the content we want.

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Originally Posted by Runestone

This is all contingent on not being able to just use the ishgard ports to access the content we want.

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I fixed this for you ;)

It's good to spitball, but let's not put the cart before the horse. None of all this debate may even be necessary.

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Originally Posted by E'hosmer

3 words: Sehr and Mancakes.

I kid, I kid... or do I?

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Guilty as charged.

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Originally Posted by Runestone

So depending on how it works, I'd suggest a static 2 to 3 days a week when 24 man raids have full access to the ships, and then the other days of the week its straight first come first serve, or something. This is also contingent on not being able to just use the ishgard ports to access the content we want.

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If you want to form a static to do these, then by all means do so. But please bear in mind that other groups will be going, too. We are not in the business of restricting our members access to content. We will not tell them "you can't go because Runestone's static wants to go."

Especially when the answer to "someone took an airship" is as simple as "wait 20 minutes."

We have a rule in this FC. Don't be a dick.

If you see a group of people trying to get a 24 man run going, you don't take the airship they need. Maybe, instead, you ask if you can join them. If they don't need it for another 20 minutes, then it's a complete non-issue because the airship will be back to pick them up on time.. This is a hell of a lot simpler than people are making it out to be.

Want a static? Form a Flight and go with them.. Don't want to be tied down by a schedule? Then just go whenever you want. There will be a million parties in the PF for this anyway.

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Originally Posted by Grimm Stronghammer

I don't see a 24 man pickup group happening on the fly just because.

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Originally Posted by Artex

http://i.imgur.com/5QdBVLe.jpg

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What Artex is saying is that, when CT/ST/WoD were all relevant content, we used to have 24-man groups so often that we have a term for it: Drunk CT.

In fact, don't be surprised if you see some Drunk CT style events in November (hint fucking hint) as we enjoy new content.

And now - a throwback to those halcyon days.

http://i.imgur.com/BdwtvIK.jpg

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Originally Posted by Gwen

What Artex is saying is that, when CT/ST/WoD were all relevant content, we used to have 24-man groups so often that we have a term for it: Drunk CT.

In fact, don't be surprised if you see some Drunk CT style events in November (hint fucking hint) as we enjoy new content.

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We actually fielded multiple alliances on some rare occasions; it was pretty amazing.

i'll have alcohol ready to go. you guys just bring like 6 medica 2's and we got this.

The live letter translation that Artex posted earlier does mention that only FC with lvl 50 ships can access the hard mode, link here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...XDRxjDt3YI/pub
However like Haz says the ships only have a 20 minute cooldown and the islands are instanced(also mentioned in the live letter translation) so you just have to get a group together and wait for a ship to become available. if you can't find enough ppl to fill go to the Party Finder, I'll bet there will be ppl in other FCs who don't have enough players to fill an Alliance, or who don't have the lvl 50 ships required to access Hard Mode.

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Originally Posted by Runestone

I think the biggest issue isn't getting the 24 people together to do a run, its that if we have a ship out on something, and a group of 24 starts forming and then a group of 8 takes another ship out, we're down 1 ship. I have no question that we can get a group of 24 people rocked out cocked out and ready to go. But dem ships...

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There's only a 20 minutes turn around for when you take out a ship. The odds of people continuously taking out ships to screw over a large group of 24 fc members is pretty slim to nonexistent.

I have prepared an emergency comfort package of things to do while the poor unlucky souls have to wait 20 minutes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Blep/
http://www.adultswim.com/videos/rick-and-morty/
https://www.reddit.com/r/holdmycatnip

In all seriousness I've actually seen this thing IRL - Cruise ships are fat beastly things that don't always fit in ports, so when they visit small Caribbean towns they have do a thing called Tendering. They park a mile from shore and little boats come take the 3000 people back and forth as need be. The boats only fit 150-200 people, so yes.. as soon as we park EVERYONE wants to go to the island RIGHT MEOW.

But in all seriousness you can literally wander to the buffet, eat sushi and pizza or whatever for breakfast, waddle back down to the Tender line and it's like, gone. Just hop on a near-empty boat and g2g.

I think the only difference is that if you flip over things procured from the sky islands they probably don't all say made in China. Also maybe less drunk people passed out in the sun working on their skin cancer.

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Originally Posted by having a vast and sprawling channel of members all talking and discussing can also be daunting for someone that may want to speak up and say something but might not have the confidence to be socially assertive or talk over someone.

E'hosmer;112153

3 words: Sehr and Mancakes.

I kid, I kid... or do I?

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Very true I do go on some large tangents sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Haz

If you want to form a static to do these, then by all means do so. But please bear in mind that other groups will be going, too. We are not in the business of restricting our members access to content. We will not tell them "you can't go because Runestone's static wants to go."

Especially when the answer to "someone took an airship" is as simple as "wait 20 minutes."

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I think what Rune meant was set aside 2-3 days like friday saturday sunday where officers or whoever handles the current airship missions does not deploy the airships and they can be used for the new content, while on the other 4 days of the week, its first come first serve for either type of airship content. Not like static groups being the only ones allowed to use it on specific days.

I think to be fair to all members of the FC, it should be first available to all that contributed to the airships then by doing a raffle for first access after the contributors.

if there is only a 20min Cd to reuse the ships whats this whole fuss about anyways.

Make a post with people play times and go from there.

Now if the ships do jnot have this 20min turn over then that another issue to hit.


this post has turned into lets bash flights for having flights. y'all make this hard for no reason. It's a simple fix get 24 ppl together who can do this at the same time and like/ can work together not hard ot get teams made.

people wihtout flights have no idea how hard it is to form one/keep it up and running and how much stress it brings trying to get that group of 8 going. stop bashing ppl who got off there asses and found flights/ swtched mains to be able to raid.

The flight issues is not the issue in this thread so stop it.


Stop acting like little kids who want there candy now and it fed to them while pushing your jaw up and down to chew it. Go make your groups yourself and stop being lazy.

Yes, OK! I'm evil and horrible for bringing up the idea that people who play in flights tend to specifically run with those people in their flights. I've been avoiding posting because I didn't intend to cause a problem, and I similarly don't wish to stoke the fire any further.

Everyone in the FC is entitled to play in whatever way they enjoy, I wasn't saying otherwise. However, I think any point I want to make is going to be too far lost to cause anything except more drama.

Therefore, I rescind my comment. I apologize to anyone I offended. As was said by our officers, with the 20 minute turnover I'm sure anyone who wants to go will be able to find time to go. Just, for the record, fear of FC members not being able to go on missions wasn't the reason for my post, and wasn't even a concern in my mind.

I seem to have a natural ability to turn normal conversations into explosions of drama, so I suppose I'll leave well enough alone. At any rate, the exploratory missions look like they are going to be a lot of fun. Should be some good FC activities in November.

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Originally Posted by Neko

But in all seriousness you can literally wander to the buffet, eat sushi and pizza or whatever for breakfast, waddle back down to the Tender line and it's like, gone. Just hop on a near-empty boat and g2g.
I think the only difference is that if you flip over things procured from the sky islands they probably don't all say made in China. Also maybe less drunk people passed out in the sun working on their skin cancer.

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You have officially sold me on taking a cruise!

http://i.imgur.com/yS9kN3q.gif

also each island can hold up to 9 parties at one time with a tag system in place for mobs. Like old school HNM farming in 11 mixed in with dynamis

this whole thing just recks of drama lama.

Everyone should take a deep breath because even with our large FC this shouldn't cause any issues for people wanting to go to the islands. If you don't want to go to the Hard islands you can use the ships in Ishgard for "instant" access. If you have a party of FC mates looking for some bigger adventures then every 20 minutes a ship can leave and we have four ships. That starts an individual timer of a two hour cooldown. (I assume that is to resupply your character with barf bags.) That means every two hours if we use all four airships we can cycle through 192 members of our fine FC before hitting an actual queue where some people would be "left behind." I may be wrong but I don't believe we were at 192 members online concurrently even at the drop of 3.0. Even if we had that many people on at one time, players will be doing other things. New trial, new story, raiding, etc.

TLDR - The longest someone could potentially wait for an FC ride should be <2 hours. We wait longer to get fish and roofs back from our retainers. Relax and enjoy the ride.

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Originally Posted by Athoen

Everyone should take a deep breath

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There's no fuckin time, Athoen.... [heavy breathing]
http://i.imgur.com/Yo7tTmy.gif

http://33.media.tumblr.com/e08b9de41...j07oo1_500.gif

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Originally Posted by Artex

There's no fuckin time, Athoen.... [heavy breathing]
http://i.imgur.com/Yo7tTmy.gif

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the creepy thing artex im re watching gundamn wing atm.

that gif has too much feels.

http://i.imgur.com/eNbesLo.gif