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Hengist

Sith Are Just More Interesting Than the Republic

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Hengist
, 04-15-2011 at 05:01 PM (55329 Views)
Sith are evil, that’s just the way we roll, and that’s one of the big reasons that the Sith Empire is a far more interesting “playground” than that of the Galactic Republic. This isn’t just the radical statement to draw people in (although it is to a degree) I genuinely believe that the Sith “Evil Empire” makes for a far more rewarding, and interesting style of play. Talk about a tough sell around here!

Many RPG’s subscribe to the “White Knight” formula, where the protagonist kills bad guys, rescues fair maidens, saves the world, and kills the big bad guy. While they are doing those things they get sunshine, rainbows, ponies, kittens, puppies, and pie. Let me take a moment to pause while I gag. I realize that being a hero appeals to many of us, but being a villain is simply far more memorable, and enjoyable.


Daniel Erickson made a great post on the TOR forums about the Sith, one that illustrates where I’m coming from:

Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson Lead Writer for The Old Republic
Hey Folks,

First of all, let me say that I love this thread. It always makes me smile to see people really digging into the setting and thinking about how it works together. Star Wars has a fascinating universe that is almost fairy tale simple on the surface and endlessly complex underneath. There is room for exceptions to every rule and variations on every theme. But in the interest of time, I'll keep this post to the general. The rule, not the exception.

Sith are evil.

The Sith philosophy is evil and encourages evil in its participants. We can get into endless philosophical discussions about whether anything is actually evil or actually good but if we are speaking from our modern, western view on the concept of evil then the Sith clearly qualify. They are encouraged to put the personal over the group, power over compassion and to judge everything's worthiness to survive on its ability to fight for that survival. Mercy, sympathy, generosity, these are seen as weaknesses. Anger and rage are seen as strengths. These are not people most of us want to work with or have as neighbors.

That does not mean, however, that the Sith see themselves as evil.

In our own world, slavery as something that is inherently evil is something the majority of the world has agreed about only in the most recent centuries. Imperialism, expansion through conquest, the rights of the few to rule the many because of birthright - these are things that our world's cultures have accepted as the natural order for a far larger percentage of history than they have rejected them.

In the Star Wars universe, followers of the Sith philosophy genuinely believe that these things we deem evil, are actually in the best interests of a society. They look at the disorder, corruption and infighting of the Republic and they scoff. "What those people lack," an Imperial thinks, "is strong leadership."

It's important to remember that movements towards freedom normally come during the reign of weak, distracted, or greedy rulers who are not providing for their people. The Sith Empire has had 1000 years under an Emperor who rebuilt them from almost nothing, led them in conquest and glory against their neighbors, returned the Empire to power and then led them in revenge against the Republic. A Republic who had previously attempted to eliminate the Empire's entire existence because of their beliefs. If this was ancient Rome the vast majority of the people would throw the Emperor a victory parade, not ask for representational government.

It's equally important to remember that you don't have to believe in any of this to play on the Empire's side in The Old Republic. You can be the exception to the rule. You are merely making a choice to be someone who was born on that side of the fence. Or, in the case of the Bounty Hunter, someone who tends to work in that part of space. The light side Sith who works tirelessly to make his Empire a better place is a deeply compelling character. The pragmatic Agent who wants nothing more than to protect the millions non-Sith citizens from harm is equally interesting. The Bounty Hunter gets to be his own man and spit right in the face of anyone who he doesn't agree with. Being a good man in a bad place is one of the all time great role-playing options.

So when you roll a character on the Empire side you're going to hear the arguments about why the war is important. You're going to feel the anger of a people who were told they didn't have the right to exist and were chased out of known space. You're going to see the culture that created and maintains their hierarchy and strange form of order. And you're going to make a choice about how much or how little of it your character wants to believe. Then you're going to start making choices. That's when it gets hard.

Hope that helps!
Daniel
Link

Mull that over for a little bit, and perhaps you’ll see where I am going with this. A Bounty Hunter may work for the Sith, but he is his own man, doing what he thinks is right for his own reasons. It truly is a prime example of being a good man in a bad place. On a personal level, I can cite many movies, characters, books and even a few games (Red Dead Redemption’s protagonist John Marston fits this bill perfectly) that grant this type of freedom, and sense of strength of character that resonate with me.

An Imperial Agent who gives a sense of superiority and control of any situation a la James Bond. (The Sean Connery/ Daniel Craig version not the Roger Moore) Choices are made based on your whim, you might do what the quest giver wants, but you might do it for your own reasons, or you might not.

The light side Sith who have forgotten about the Hyperspace War and how the Republic essentially tried to commit mass genocide and wipe the Sith from the galaxy are interesting. In my first blog I mentioned a quest that takes some time and the Sith are given a “light side option” and if they take it, they end up having to re-do the quest. Erickson made the comment (you'll need to go to the Q&A segment about 69:30 in to the presentation, TOR as a whole starts about 15:20 in) “Being a light side Sith is hard.” It is far harder to be a beacon of light in an environment that would kill you for it, than being bad in a society that merely discourages it.


This is depth of character; this is what ties me to that character. I’m not tied to an arbitrary sense of goodness. I’m given a choice to do what I want to do, but also to possibly suffer the consequences for doing it. With a person we’d call that a sense of growing responsibility for our actions. Maybe folks wont look that deeply into their character, and maybe the character is simply a chance to live out a “Jedi Fantasy” that they’ve had for years. I get that, I do. If you feel an affinity for your character in the least, if you put yourself into it, Bioware has now actually given you a way to express that, to make your choices matter, and to evolve your character. That is something that has been missing in most MMO’s to me, where the choice between good and evil is often just cosmetic, with no real depth to it. Here, if I played as a Dark Side Sith, I would pay a cosmetic price as well, as my avatar will change with prolonged exposure to the dark side.

Of course the Republic will have some variation, and you'll be able to express some dark side tendencies there as well. A big difference though is in how each respective society would view a person of a different morality within it. In a Sith society a person would likely be killed, but in the Republic at worst they would be shunned or imprisoned. Context matters. With a heavier price to be paid, more weight is put on individual decisions. How can we possibly equate the pressure to conform to each society?

Now I won’t suggest that Sith having tough guy voices, or English accents makes them better (even if it does). I wont suggest that my belief that the Jedi are deeply flawed and apply their code only when it is convenient. I won’t say that the Republic is a false embodiment of a good system of government. I won’t say that some of the most interesting characters in the Star Wars universe are interesting because of their flaws, their challenges, or their independence. I won’t even touch the idea that people flock to being good guys simply because it’s easy to do it in a game, and it makes them feel good about themselves. I know there are counters to all of those. I'll go a different route.

I'm going to adapt a line from the Bounty Hunter Class Video though: "Aureus Knights you've earned a death mark, so we'll be seeing each other real soon. Dont let it go to your head though, to me you're just another job."


I hope to see a few more of you venture over to Aureus Empire, our Sith Chapter for TOR in the coming weeks.

Video of the week: Designing the Dark Side

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Updated 04-16-2011 at 12:42 AM by Hengist

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  1. Hengist's Avatar
    I had to re-edit in one extra paragraph in here since I was over the character limit:

    In the earlier video where Erickson talks about the Sith quest he makes a great point about Han Solo, for my purpose here, I'm going to build on his concept. In Star Wars A New Hope, Han Solo is a a dark side smuggler. He plays with bad guys, he is motivated by money, he doesnt have loyalty, you never know if he is going to help Luke Skywalker or if he is going his own way. Han is unpredictable. As the story progresses, he gets interested in a princess (see what I said about a good guy early on...a princess is always their undoing!) He becomes a General in the Rebellion, he only plays with his light side friends, and his former dark side friends try to kill him. By the time Return of the Jedi is going on, Han Solo is a fully fledged light side character. Han's tranformation to the light side had one other adverse effect, he became boring. When he was unpredicatable he had a roguish charm, and he was fun to watch. When he was fully light side, he just wasnt very interesting because he was "just another good guy". Can we maybe blame that on the princess? It does pain me to admit that, as Han is perhaps my favorite character in the Star Wars universe.
    Updated 04-16-2011 at 01:36 AM by Hengist
  2. Hengist's Avatar
    In past MMO's I've probably taken awhile to build a connect to my character, and when it was formed it was because of adventures that occured at max level. Rarely was the questing and leveling process a part of me connecting to my character, leveling was just a way to max level where the game would start.

    This is a big part of what this blog is about to me. Bioware involving me in a story from the begining allows me to develop my character, put a little bit of myself into it, and in turn it becomes an extension of me. I'm excited to build a character that I shape, and that's something I've missed.

    Anyone else feel the same way, or look at this as a hinderance to leveling? Do people care about the story, about having a tie to a character, or am I nuts to have an attachment to my toon?
  3. Dewley's Avatar
    This will be the real first time I choose the "Dark side" in any game. also my first time back to gaming in a couple of years
  4. Hengist's Avatar
    Okay so other than me saying I was going Sith, and kind of dragging you to that side, what's the interest, what's the intrigue, why would you want to go Dark instead of Light? Just a general "do something different" feeling?
  5. Desandre's Avatar
    The only characters I was ever really attached to were my WoW Hunter, EQ2 Wizard, and Vanguard Cleric. I think I got attached to them because I liked how they played (Cleric), and I liked the way that they looked (Wizard) and the pets (Hunter) that I had. Other games like SWG and UO I never really got into because I did not care about the character at all. I think that The Old Republic is going to let me care from the time I start playing, so I have an interest in the story as well as the class.

    I could have gone Republic and still felt tied to the plot, but having never been a "bad guy" before, I'm kind of excited to see what choices I make, because I can "play" opposite my normal type.
  6. Dewley's Avatar
    You dragged me to the Dark side...lol It is doing something different that is bringing back too
  7. Hengist's Avatar
    Okay, let me ask you...what characters from previous MMO's did you enjoy the most, and why did you enjoy 'em? Were there characters you enjoyed or felt attached to where you did not like the game?
  8. Sayda's Avatar
    Sorry I'm late to this Hengist, I've been busy!
    First of all - no sound on my computer right now - can you confirm that dark side choices affect your appearance (somewhat like Fable? Not so absurd as Fable, but still?). If so, that pleases Derek greatly.

    Now, on to the content:
    I have usually played "evil" characters in past MMOs (Horde, Destruction, Empire), so I am fully prepared for Sith Side!
    I am going to play an Evil/Neutral Imperial Agent. In fact, one of my themes/mottos is: "It is better to be subject to the Laws under one Master, than to be subservient to many." (Catherine the Great) Another theme I use is the Caesars and Emperors of Rome (Alea iacta est - The die has been cast). I am going to play a character that honestly believes that a dictator can make the best decisions for everyone. Of course, I don't believe that in real life (unless I was the dictator), but you know that dictators can get shit done, and that's very powerful and enticing from a roleplay perspective (even if you're not actively roleplaying, just participating in the story in the quests).

    It is such an awesome option that Bioware is giving us: to play the bad guy, to get to experience the "naughty" side of things, and the option to make choices that aren't always good or noble. Side thought: if you are looking for an interesting retelling of LOTR from the "bad guy" point of view, check out Banewreaker by Jaqueline Carey. It's really good.

    Hengist's extra questions/comments:
    I always build characters (motivations/themes/story) from level 1 or before. For SWTOR, I've already got several storylines/historys/character themes/types planned - in fact, I'm a little afraid that the "backgrounds" will hurt my story plan a bit (ie be too unrelated to what I want my story-background to be... but then I'll just pretend the background didn't happen). Anyway, if I'm not roleplaying the character (anything in WoW), I still put some effort into character creation and while leveling to make my story. It really starts with the character look and name in those cases. My night elf hunter (my first 60, even though I wanted to play Horde) was very earthy themed (attuned to nature). My shaman are always voodoo based (Ayizan), my druids celtic (Imbolc).

    In roleplaying games, or even games with a hint of roleplay, I get a little more involved. For SWTOR I've got pages of character design - though most is shamelessly ripped from my SWG character (I even got art from the Star Wars Artists Guild!). Even for Dragon Age, or other RPG games (basically anything Bioware or Bethesda), I make a very clear character in my head, and try to keep to those choices in game play. I only deviate to be sure I get the romance I want (*cough*Alistair*cough*).

    Basically: you're not nuts for having an attachment to your character, unless you consider me nuts (well, maybe I am). Final anecdote on the attachment: in DAO (SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED) - you have to let Morrigan sleep with a Warden. Well, I couldn't add Loghain to my group, because Alisdair would leave. And I was a female character in a relationship with Alisdair. I couldn't let Morrigan leave, because I had set her up as my main caster dps (she had all the gear, spec, etc). So, it was quite painful to me when I had to let her sleep with Alisdair. Like, it was crushing that I had to make such an out of (my own invented) character decision, that it bugged me. It was the right decision storywise, and maybe I could twist it to be in character (something about me not feeling that I have too many ties on people... I was playing a city elf rogue), but man it SUCKED.
  9. Hengist's Avatar
    Can I confirm that there is Darkside corruption without sound? But of course! Here is the link to the summary of the Star Wars Insider article that askajedi paraphrased, 2nd part about character customization: "If you’re familiar with Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic, one of the things that we showed was how the dark side started to corrupt you. Your appearance started to change, your flesh started to age and you become more like Palpatine from the movies, and your abilities started to change as well. This also occurs in The Old Republic." Glad to make Derek happy!

    Honestly I'm not sure that Sith are more interesting in general, but they are to me for all the reasons that I shared earlier. I just feel like there is more freedom, and more price to be paid for my decisions. I like that idea quite a bit.

    In some MMO's I've tried to build a background, and it made it easier for me to envision my character. I already had a place in the world. I did some long detailed background pieces for Age of Conan, for Star Wars Galaxies, and for EQ2, but I never did for WoW, it's like that story only started to grow for me once I hit max level. What I like about TOR is that the background is set-up for me, I'm going to experience it, and unique twists are going to be based on my choices. I'll build my own place in the world.

    Since you brought up DAO, remember Sten? He was my favorite companion character. At first I did not like him much, but I ended up playing more and more with him in my group until he was a must have companion. I think his character really got me looking at light/dark thru clearer glasses, and I had a much different take on things. Probably one of the reasons why I'm most looking forward to the Sith this time out. (Red Dead Redemptions John Marston being the other).